Memorable, traditional pubs and inns

A while ago I added a page about the pubs, inns, arms and crowns of Combe Down and Monkton Combe.

In our small area there used to be at least fourteen but now there are five.

When I first came to write this blog I thought it might be more about them, but I became side tracked and interested in why so many may have closed and whether things have changed for ever or whether the pendulum might, one day swing back.

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An old English pub, 1930s

When I was very much younger, in the 1970s, I had a flat in Brunswick Square in Brighton.

So did my maternal grandfather whom I did not know well as he and my grandmother had divorced before I was born.

However, he was now retired and frequented the Star of Brunswick pub in Brunswick Street West just behind the square. It has long since converted to a private home.

We spent many convivial evenings in the pub over a pint or two while he smoked his pipe. There I got to know him and there were also many regulars, much banter and laughter.

The pub has long been a social venue, a social centre for a local community, a place to meet friends and a place to foster community spirit – pubs are good for social cohesion.

A report by the Department of Experimental Psychology, University of Oxford for CAMRA called ‘Friends on Tap‘ suggests that local community pubs have unseen social benefits such as  a venue in which we can serendipitously meet new, in many cases like-minded, people but also  broaden our network of acquaintances and widen our experience by bringing us into contact with people from other walks of life, become more engaged with our local community and that this is likely to have significant health and wellbeing benefits.

Another study by Newcastle Business School, ‘The Importance of Pubs in Shaping Community Cohesion and Social Wellbeing in Rural Areas of England‘, of 2,800 rural parishes across the country over a 10-year period found that those areas which had a pub enjoyed a greater sense of community. There were more likely to be local football or cricket teams, charity fundraising events and branches of the Scouts and Brownies.

It seems that 40% of people in the UK typically socialise with friends in someone’s home and 30% prefer to do so in pubs and feel it important to have a pub nearby, but only 20% say pubs are a regular part of their life. 72% of people go to the pub to eat. 

I believe that great British pub is where the personality of the pub is created by the personality of the landlord, but a recent survey showed that it was second most important to the price and quality of the beer which is clearly dichotomous with the number of people who go there to eat.

  • Price and quality of the beer     33.6%
  • Personality of the landlord        24.6%
  • No music or TV screens          20.6%

But, cheaper alcohol from supermarkets, increases in rents and rates, the rise in duty and VAT, the smoking ban and a rise in the health conscious consumer have affected the British pub.

In 2003, the average adult drank 218 pints of beer but by 2011 they consumed just 152 pints with sales in pubs down 54% whereas sales from off licenses were down only 10%.

Around 40% of pubs are owned by ‘pubcos‘ but 60% are independent. The number of pubs in the UK has almost halved since 1905:

  • 1905     99,000
  • 1935     77,500
  • 1951     73,400
  • 1971     64,000
  • 2006     58,200
  • 2016     52,750

However, The Society of Independent Brewers report ‘British Beer‘ says that 532 million pints were brewed by its 835 members in 2015 which is an increase of 15% over 2013 and 176% over 2009. They say that well over 75% of their members’ beer is served in pubs, restaurants and hotels.

A report commissioned by Greene King in 2008, ‘The enduring appeal of the local‘ from The Social Issues Research Centre also provides more hope that the pendulum may swing back. 

The pub is considered to be neutral territory compared with entertaining at home which makes some people feel pressured whereas the pub allows them to relax and be a less intense way of meeting people.

A pub is a hub for sociability and the bringing together of people from different walks of life in a way that no other social institution or public space can match.

We go to the pub ‘for a drink’, but ‘having a drink’ is a social act surrounded by tacit rules — a hidden etiquettes that gives us a sense of inclusion and belonging that is independent of our status in the mainstream world.

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More pages and infills about Combe Down

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Glasshouse cafe – Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette – Saturday 26 October 1929

I have added more pages and infills about Combe Down by filling in some obvious gaps.

There’s some old adverts mentioning Combe Down or Monkton Combe – none very exciting it has to be said, but hopefully further research will find some that are.

Having said that, even if the adverts themselves don’t excite they can lead to little known gems.

Gems such as the 1912 Bath and West Show being held on Glasshouse Fields. I was unaware of this until I saw the ad and it also created a good opportunity to infill a bit about the background of the Glasshouse name.

I have added some more Combe Down maps and map links and moved it in the navigation too.

More old photos of Combe Down, Prior Park and Monkton Combe have been added.

A short section on the Monkton Combe lock up, an obvious omission, has been added.

Another obvious omission, the Combe Down Jewish cemetery has be added too. Other additions cover Allotments on Combe Down, the old Wesleyan Reform chapel behind Glenburnie and some information about The Firs or Firs Field on Combe Down. This is now a Centenary Field protected in perpetuity through a legal Deed of Dedication between the Council and Fields in Trust, meaning that ownership and management of the site remain in local hands.

I have also added a section on Claremont Buildings or Hopecote Lodge as it is now known. It, along with Isabella Place and 109 – 117 Church Road, was part of the second wave of building on Combe Down from 1800. Some interesting people lived there including William Fortt who founded Fortt’s Refreshment Rooms in Milsom Street. Forrt’s later merged with tow other Bath firms to form Cater, Stoffell & Fortt that made the famous Bath Oliver biscuits.

There was also Rhoda Mary Hope (1828 – 1910) whose sister Sarah Clegg Hope (1832 – 1863) is the 2nd great-grandmother of Camilla Rosemary Shand (b. 1947), now Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cornwall. It was Rhoda’s nephew Dr Charles Middleton Coates (1857 – 1933), the son of Sarah Clegg Hope, who turned 1 – 3 Claremont Buildings, three Georgian buildings similar to 113 – 117 Church Road into one building with the French mansard it has now. One of his sons Donald Bateman Hope Coates (1904 – 1994) seems to have been a spy for the Cairo Gang inter-alia.

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1 – 3 Claremont Buildings, later Hopecote, later Hope Cote Lodge, Combe Down

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Complete listed buildings master list

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Dial House, De Montalt Place, Combe Down – one of the listed buildings

I have just added a page for Listed Buildings on Combe Down and in Midford and Monkton Combe divided into 15 areas which are in a rough circle as follows:

For each building or monument I have tried to give:

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Lovely, vintage Combe Down, Monkton Combe and Prior Park photos

I have long wanted to add galleries of Combe Down, Monkton Combe and Prior Park photos but never really felt I had enough to warrant it.

Now I do, though I’d dearly love more photos to add to the galleries, so, if you have any that you’d be willing to let me publish then please do let me have a copy.

Meanwhile follow this link to take a look at the galleries of Combe Down, Monkton Combe and Prior Park photos.

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Family trees on Prior to Now

I have introduced a Family Trees Centre to Prior to Now to help to sort out who was who and their relationships one to another. 

Some of the more important families and people in the story of Combe Down from 1700 – 1900 have been added so far and a list of the trees and some of the individuals is shown below.

I have used a different link colour and rollover for Family Tree links and introduced some Family Tree links into the text within the pages too.

Something else that comes out of it, if you are interested in history and genealogy as I am, is the ‘shape’ of families – it’s strange how similar patterns seem to repeat in each family, with some branches thriving and others dying out.

What’s also interesting is the way some families have stayed prosperous over many centuries.

Other things also emerge such as the builder of Midford Castle, Henry Woolhouse Disney Roebuck (1733 – 1796) having ancestors that include: Edward I, King of England (1239 – 1307) 13th and 14th great grandfather, Edward II, King of England (1284 – 1327) 13th great grandfather, Edward III, King of England (1312 – 1377) 12th great grandfather.

ZeeThe fact that the Bennet family, of Widcombe Manor, and the D’Isney (Disney) family of Midford Castle came together when Maj Philip Bennet (1837 – 1875 ) married Barbara Sophia Harriet Disney (1838 – 1929) the cousin 3 times removed of Henry Woolhouse Disney Roebuck (1733 – 1796).

Combe Grove Manor

Battell family tree. Owner of Combe Grove Manor, Rev William Batell (abt 1692 – 1750).

Vaughan Jenkins family tree. Owners of Combe Grove Manor and other land, William Davies (abt 1725 – abt 1798), William Vaughan Jenkins (abt 1752 – 1818), William Vaughan Jenkins (1813 – 1876), Frederick Vaughan Jenkins (1817 – 1892).

Prior Park

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Prior Park

Allen, Bennet, Maude family tree. Owners and occupiers of Prior ParkRalph Allen (1693 – 1764), Gertrude Tucker (abt 1727 – 1796 ), Rt Rev Dr William Warburton Bishop of Gloucester (1698 – 1779), Ralph Allen Warburton (1756 – 1775), Capt. William Tucker RN (abt 1728 – 1770), Philip Allen (1695 – 1765), Jane Bennet (1704 – 1767), Mary Allen Lady Maude (1732  – 1775), Cornwallis Maude 1st Viscount Hawarden (1729 – 1803), Thomas Ralph Maude 2nd Viscount Hawarden (1767 – 1807), Anne Isabella Monck Viscountess Hawarden (1759 – 1851), Cornwallis Maude 3rd Viscount Hawarden (1780 – 1856), Cornwallis Maude 1st Earl de Montalt (1817 – 1905).

Thomas family tree. Purchasers (and subsequently sellers) of Prior Park and other land from Thomas Maude 2nd Viscount Hawarden (1767 – 1807) and Cornwallis Maude 3rd Viscount Hawarden (1780 – 1856). John Thomas (abt 1752 – 1827), John Ovens Thomas (1778 – 1836).

Midford Castle

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Midford Castle

Disney Roebuck family tree. Builder of Midford Castle, Henry Woolhouse Disney Roebuck (1733 – 1796). [Ancestors include: Edward I, King of England (1239 – 1307) 13th and 14th great grandfather, Edward II, King of England (1284 – 1327) 13th great grandfather, Edward III, King of England (1312 – 1377) 12th great grandfather].

Conolly family tree. Owners of Midford Castle, Charles Conolly (abt 1759 – 1828), Charles Thomas Conolly (1791 – 1850), Charles John Thomas Conolly (1818 – 1871), Louisa Lucy Margaret Catherine Brancaccio Marchesa di Sant’Agata (abt 1823 – 1899).

Combe Down Village

Layton, Hadley family tree. Purchasers of land and buildings from Thomas Maude 2nd Viscount Hawarden (1767 – 1807) and Cornwallis Maude 3rd Viscount Hawarden (1780 – 1856) and owners of the Hadley Estate. Edward Layton (abt 1730 – 1805), Nathaniel Hadley (abt 1760 – 1849), Nathaniel Hadley (1786 – 1864), Nathaniel Layton Hadley (abt 1819 – 1870), Clara Emma Hadley (abt 1813 – 1890), Eliza Stapylton Hadley (abt 1815 – 1899).

Wingrove, Vivian family tree. Attorney to and purchaser of land from Thomas Maude 2nd Viscount Hawarden (1767 – 1807), Cornwallis Maude 3rd Viscount Hawarden (1780 – 1856) and John Thomas (abt 1752 – 1827). Benjamin Belmont Wingrove (1773 – 1840).

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A quick look at Combe Down around 1846 – 1848

I was just looking at the Hunt & Co. and Silverthorne directories for Bath and Bristol for 1848 and 1846 respectively and thought it would be interesting to see what went on in the village around then – what was it like on Combe Down around 1846 – 1848? Who is mentioned? What trades and professions?

The problem is that, unlike later Kelly’s directories that locate a place and then show the people living there plus their occupations etc. these earlier directories are alphabetical and by class, so it’s not so simple to get an idea of what was going on.

Luckily, in this age of the internet you can find ‘electronic’ copies of most things, which makes it easier to do a search and then……

So that’s what I did, using Google books for Hunt & Co. 1848 and a PDF for Silverthorne 1846.

The results are below and provide an interesting snapshot of some of the people who lived and worked here.

I find a number of  things interesting, compared to today. 

For example the use of ‘nobility and gentry’ and people describing themselves as ‘gent’.

The boarding and day schools situated in private houses.

The fact that there were actually shops in the village (!) – no cars or supermarkets then.

Additionally, given the total population of 1,600 – 1,750 there are, unlike say the old telephone directories, actually very few people listed.

One other thing is the blacksmith. In Silverthorne’s of 1846 it is George Humphries but by Hunt & Co of 1848 it is Harriett Humphries – presumably his wife or daughter. But, was she the owner or did she actually smith? It would be interesting to know.

The census’ for 1841 and 1851 also give a picture and are shown below the directory findings.

Some interesting things were going on with property on Combe Down around this time.

John Ovens Thomas (1778 – 1836), the eldest son of John Thomas, the owner of Prior Park had died 10 years earlier but in 1846 his trustees decided to sell much of the land he had inherited from his father as well as some of his ground rents. The land, as can be seen from the estate sale notice below included the farm next door to St. Michael and All Angels Church at Monkton Combe, a number of fields near the Dundas Acqueduct and Midford Brook as well as ground rents for the Tyning Road area, The Brow, and Tyning Place.

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John Ovens Thomas estate sale – Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette – Thursday 16 April 1846

It also included the land from North Road to Church Road as the map below shows, The map also gives a really good idea of what this area of Combe Down was like in 1846.

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Map of Combe Down plots for sale from estate of John Oven Thomas in 1846

Hunts & Co 1848

Nobility, Gentry, &c.

  • Baskett Mrs. Sarah, 6, De Montalt place, Combe down
  • Crawley Rev. Edm. Jones, Combe grove villa, Monckton Combe
  • Freestun Capt. Humphrey, Mayfield, Combe down
  • Jenkins Vaughan, Combe grove, Combe down – also Magistrate, For The Bath Division Of The County Of Somersetshire.
  • Newnham Rev. George William, Parsonage house, Combe down
  • Palethorpe Edward, De Montalt cottage, Combe down
  • Price William, 1, Claremont bldgs Combe down
  • Richmond Rev. Henry, Combe down
  • Sheen Miss Emma, 2, Isabella pl. Combe down
  • Steart Augustus Wm. 5, De Montalt place, Combe down
  • Steart Mrs. Maria, 5, De Montalt place, Combe down
  • Tanner Miss Fanny, 1, South parade, Combe down
  • Tanner Mrs. Sarah, 1, South parade, Combe down
  • Walters Miss Mary, 5, Isabella pl. Combe down

Other

  • Aslat Mary, lodging house keeper, Claremont house, Combe down
  • Bending Thomas tailor, Combe down
  • Brooks William, beer retailer and smith, Combe down
  • Bull Margaretta, boarding & day school, Prospect pL Combe down
  • Clarke Robert, painter, plumber, &c. and grocery dealer, Combe Down
  • Cook William, grocery dealer and butcher, 3, Prospect place, Combe Down
  • Davidge George, quarry master, Combe down
  • Edwards Samuel, beer retailer and grocery dealer, 1, Prospect pl Combe down
  • Ewens Frances, lodging house keeper, Combe down
  • Forward George, grocery, &c. dealer, 4, Prospect pl. Combe down
  • Franckling Wm. travelling stationer, Combe down
  • Garrett Samuel, haulier, Combe down
  • Giles Thomas, grocery dealer, and butcher 3, Park place, Combe down
  • Harding William, surgeon, 3, Claremont buildings, Combe down
  • Hewlett Anne Batchelor, boarding and day school, 11, De Montalt place, Combe down
  • Humphries Harriett, blacksmith, Combe down
  • Hunt James, grocery dealer, Brunswick place, Combe down
  • Lacey Robert, haulier, Combe down
  • Margerum Robert, grocery dealer, and beer retailer, Combe down
  • Massy Hugh Nelson, surgeon, Combe down
  • Payne John, overseer of the parish of Monkton Combe, Park villa, Combe down
  • Radburn George, quarry master, Combe down
  • Rawlings William, Carriage Inn, Combe down
  • Ricketts Charles, carpenter & joiner, Combe down
  • Salter Job, 1, Priory cottages, Combe down
  • Spence Samuel, Hadley Arms, and quarry master, Combe down
  • Stinnard & Ford, quarry masters, Combe down
  • Stodart John, 2, Claremout buildings, Combe down
  • Sumsion Isaac, quarry master, 1, Park place, Combe down
  • Vincent William, boot & shoe maker, 9, Cheap street — p. r. Combe down
  • Whitaker William, boot and shoe maker, Combe down
  • Wren Thomas Jay, short hand writer, and stationer, Combe down

Churches

Trinity, Combe down. — Sunday, 11 morn. and 6 even. Sacrament administered the first Sunday in the month. Rector, Rev. George Newnham. Curate, -Rev. D. Topham.

Chapels

  • Independent, Combe down. Sunday 3 aft. and 6 even. Ministers various.
  • Wesleyan, Combe down. Sunday 6 even. Ministers various.

Schools

National (boys and girls) Combe down. Master, Samuel Hellier.

Silverthorne 1846

  • Alien Thomas Nelson, messenger at Guildhall; residence, Combe down
  • Barnes George, greengrocer, Combe down
  • Batchelor Arthur, grocer and provision warehouse, Combe down
  • Bending John, tailor and publican, Combe down
  • Burgess John, quarry master, Combe down
  • Burgess Mrs. Mary, Woodbine place, Combe down
  • Byfield J., quarry-master, Crossway place, Combe down
  • Clarke Robert, plumber, glazier, &c., I, Park place, Combe down
  • Cooke William, grocer, Combe down
  • Corbould John, mourning establishment, 32, Milsom street; residence, 4, lsabella place, Combe down
  • Davidge Sarah, publican, Combe down
  • Dayer Mrs. Hannah, Three Crowns, Combe down
  • Dill John Michael, lodgings, Green-Down house, Combe Down
  • Downey John, Brass-Knocker inn, Combe
  • Edwards Samuel, baker and grocer, Combe down
  • Heal George, Carriage inn and tavern, Combe down
  • Hewlett Miss Ann Batchelor, ladies’ seminary, 11, Demontalt place, Combe down
  • Hine Thomas, brewer, and wine and spirit vaults, Combe down brewery
  • Humphries George, blacksmith, Combe down
  • Hunt James, grocer and tea-dealer, Combe down
  • Lewis James, surgeon Combe down
  • Loscomb Mrs. Mary Anne, lodgings, Woodbine place, Combe down
  • Luff John, boot and shoe maker, Combe down
  • Newnham Rev. George William, Combe down parsonage, Combe down
  • Osburne Mrs. Col., 2, lsabella place, Combe down
  • Palethorpe Edward, gent., Demontalt cot., Combe down
  • Price William, gent., 1, Claremont bdgs., Combe down
  • Prince Mrs. Henry, 1, Isabella place, Combe down
  • Russell Henry, gardener, Combe down
  • Sheppard William, quarryman, Crossway house, Combe down
  • Steart Mrs. Maria, 5, De Montalt place, Combe down
  • Stroud Thomas, gent., Combe down
  • Sumsion Samuel, quarry-master, Combe down
  • Tanner Thomas, gent., l, South parade, Combe down
  • Vincent William, boot and shoe maker, 9, Cheap street; residence, 2, Priory cottages, Combe down
  • Weaver William, butcher, Combe down
  • White Benjamin, gent., 2, Park place, Combe down
  • Wren Thomas Jay, Greendown cottage, Combe down

Clergy

  • Quarrell Rev. R., Brow-hill house, Combe down

1841 CENSUS LIST OF PROPERTIES

Monkton Combe, District 8: 149 properties, 362 males and 435 females giving a total population of 797

Monkton Combe, District 9: 50 properties, 164 males and 169 females giving a total population of 313

Lyncombe & Widcombe, District 9: 95 properties, 232 males and 258 females giving a total population of 490

Combe Down: 294 properties, 758 males and 862 females giving a total population of 1,600

1851 CENSUS LIST OF PROPERTIES

Monkton Combe, District 1a: 25 properties, 196 males and 200 females giving a total population of 396

Monkton Combe, District 1b: 205 properties, 412 males and 461 females giving a total population of 873

Lyncombe & Widcombe, District 1i: 109 properties, 221 males and 248 females giving a total population of 469

Combe Down: 339 properties, 829 males and 909 females giving a total population of 1,738

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